Comments on: Electric cars: bad for the environment?

By: Ron Basich

Ron Basich — Tue, 13 Sep 2011 22:13:57 +0000

It is possible that electric vehicles are already more environmentally friendly than internal combustion engines. Both require substantial power generation infrastructure at the moment, while electric motors are already considerably more efficient in providing “power to the wheel”. Ideally we should be able to use solar energy to provide at least part of the charge requirements of electric vehicles. If a significant portion of remote power generation is eliminated from electric vehicle energy requirements, the high efficiency of electric motors should make electric vehicles much more environmentally friendly. Apart from power generation, it is clear that there will be a need to develop recyclable, high-storage batteries. I think that at some point in progress toward these two goals, electric cars will become indisputably more environmentally friendly than internal combustion engines. We may in fact have already passed that point.

By: Dump trucks

Dump trucks — Thu, 02 Sep 2010 05:24:14 +0000

Electric vehicles don’t create harmful emissions themselves, but they do rely on electricity for recharging. Fossil fuels produce about two-thirds of the electricity in the United States, according to the U.S. Department of Energy. Turning fossil fuels into electricity creates pollution that can have significant negative effects on the environment.

By: atul4

atul4 — Wed, 18 Aug 2010 21:14:46 +0000

Debt

By: lordyosch

lordyosch — Sat, 17 Jul 2010 12:45:28 +0000

Long-term I see the way forward to be either a whole new technology which we currently don’t have or it has to be electrical.
I think there are maybe 4 different paths we’ll take to get to electric cars being the ‘only’ choice -and that will take time.
Nuclear fission- no greenhouse gases but unpopular
Hydrogen -big problems today but what about 5,10,15 years?
Nuclear fusion -still a Sci-fi dream, but for how long
‘Normal’ renewables -we’ve really got to raise the bar to generate enough energy for global demand for this option to work.

For a Hydrogen fuel cell to work, we’re still limited by the amount of energy in Hydrogen molecules. Per mole of substance Octane contains 20 times the energy of hydrogen so the large compression of Hydrogen is needed to store it (which requires a large energy input). THis leads to think pressure tanks (heavy, bulky) or less range for a smaller tank.

I’d love to wake up tomorrow to an efficiently hydrogen powered world, no more particulate air pollution. Though water vapour IS a greenhouse gas!

Can we ever win?

By: JJ

JJ — Thu, 15 Jul 2010 20:44:35 +0000

The 85-95% efficiency is if they are constantly operating at the rated load, which they won’t be as the speed and drag are always changing. This coupled with coal mining/transport costs lowers the gap. There is also an efficiency rating for charging/discharging the batteries. The nation grid infrastructure will also have to be upgraded at extra expense (if they go mainstream). I was talking about the whole picture when I said they are just as efficient but it would be hard to determine.
A note on the recycling: the battery packs are very taxing on the environment. They use materials that are shipped from all over the world and are assembled in (mostly) in Japan. They are then shipped from Japan to the country the car is assembled and finally to here (they also aren’t light). They have a finite life also and after so many charges, they have to be replaced. After being replaced the majority of the battery will end up in a landfill as only some of it can be recycled where diesel engines don’t have the battery problem and don’t really come with a set life.
I’m not really informed on hydrogen production or the obstacles in the way but as more money is pumped into development costs will drop. Maybe the day will come when the production will actually happen in the car? Just add water….. I wonder how the government would justify ridiculous water taxes! The anti GM people will deal, it’s just like when they complained about putting windmills up eventually they will realise it’s a necessity. That or the environmentalists will beat them to death with sticks (which came from a tree that died of natural causes obviously)…

By: lordyosch

lordyosch — Thu, 15 Jul 2010 18:59:26 +0000

JJ,

I’m not certain that your point about diesel engines being ‘just as efficient’ comes from. A quick Wikipedia search suggests the most efficient diesel engine is 54.4% efficient. Whereas the brushless electric motors employed in EV’s are 85-90% efficient.

I think, considering the engine efficiencies are the most efficient cases for the cars (excluding stop/start driving or ‘enthusiastic’ driving the efficicencies will drop away drastically

The efficiency of a coal-powered power station is approximately 30-35% (excluding transmission losses) This is obviously worst case -other fuels are available as they say!
Efficiency of refining crude oil is about 80% (well-to-tank).

I agree there are some ‘exotic’ materials used in motor construction, these are however recyclable.

As for Hydrogen, I’ve long been a fan(!?) of it (comes from being a Chemist I guess…) but it doesn’t have the energy density of a load of other fuels, so storing it in the vehicle is massively difficult. The energy costs in obtaining it are (currently) huge. My instinct is that a biochemical method of obtaining it is needed -but then we crash into the Anti-GM arguments!

If we can crack hydrogen, its best use will be to generate electricity and have battery powered cars!

By: JJ

JJ — Sat, 14 Nov 2009 17:30:23 +0000

They produce the same if not more emissions than regular cars. They produce more emissions when they are being produced due to the different components they use and then the electricity they use may come from fossil fuels anyway… Not only this but diesel cars can be just as efficient, if not more, than electric cars in everyday use. They do however make a good argument for heavy urban traffic which is why some manufactures are considering implementing them into some of their range especially on performance cars which drink petrol in the city. Hydrogen power cars will be the solution to the problem however but they are several years away before being mainstream. mainstream.